#5 - How to turn your brand into a sustainable and profitable business?

Transcript:

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Dgenious podcast, Let's Talk Retail. So, my guest today is an entrepreneur. He's also a long-distance sailor, a passionate man, deeply committed to transforming our world to be more sustainable and more ethical. But he's going to explain it to us. So, actually, he's the CEO of the independent chocolate company Galler, and with his team, he also won this year's Corporate Social Responsibility of the year 2021, Salvatore Iannello. Hi, thanks for being with me. How are you doing?

 

00:01:22

Salvatore Iannello: I'm very well. Hello and thank you for inviting us. I say "we" because this is what I want to explain. It's not just my point of view, it's the point of view of the whole company. Thank you for allowing us to express our vision of the world. Without any pretension, obviously, but I think we have things to say and this is the opportunity. Opportunity makes the thief, thank you very much.

 

00:01:47

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: With pleasure. Indeed, we're going to discuss it and I'm sure it will be very interesting. I don't know if there are people listening to us who don't know Galler but for those who do know it, don't know it or maybe don't know it yet, it's 16 stores in four countries; in Belgium, in France, in Qatar and in Lebanon. You tell me if I'm wrong, but it's mostly 2000 points, a presence in 2000 points of sale in the world, even in Asia, in Japan. If my information is correct, I know that for you, and indeed I think it's fantastic, the team is very important. It's a team of 170 employees. We have many French auditors, so 170 employees. And with all this team, you have initiated a major turning point in Galler's positioning in recent months. I call it that; maybe it's not the right term, so feel free to change it. What I'm really interested in today is to know more about: Why? So why and how? Maybe even more how than why? And what were your goals and motivations? How did this transformation towards a more sustainable business come about? What are the obstacles and maybe also the good surprises? That's a little bit the tone and the objective of our conversation today. Maybe for the first question: who is Galler today, what is Galler today?

 

00:03:30

Salvatore Iannello: This is a company that wants to make quality chocolate but wants to do it in a sustainable way and with a lot of ethics. This is particularly important because in our industrial sector, we have a sector that is extremely unfair, which is based on an imbalance between the various stakeholders and the cocoa industry. Today, still in the 21st century, the sector generates extreme poverty in cocoa farming and sometimes even child slavery. And beyond the social aspect, it is also a big problem on the planet. More than 90% of the primary forests in Ghana and Ivory Coast have disappeared in the last 50 years. So really, the chocolate industry is a sector that must, in which we must give sustainability. We must create sustainability and create more ethics. That's what I like, and that is what you said, that Galler Chocolate is at a turning point, a new project. In reality, we have become a company with a raison d'être and what is a company with a raison d'être? First of all, what is this raison d'être? It is to embody in the world of chocolate an entrepreneurial approach based on the convergence of interests to build a fair and sustainable world. What does this mean? It means that we have moved from a single strategic issue, which was the P of profit, and which is the result of our last 300 years of operation. A strategic issue that is fourfold, which is the P of profit, the P of people, the P of planet and the P of purpose, which is the reason for being. And so, it's really another approach to business, it's the integration of all the stakeholders in the equation. And in any case, what's important to note is that it's not, in any case, this strategy is not a strategy of demonizing profit. A company has to make a profit. A company that does not make money is a company that dies. So here, we are not demonizing profit. We're just saying that we're questioning how to share that profit.

 

00:05:43

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Yes, it's really important because it's true that the economy has good things too. It's true that you have to generate value. You have to make sure that your employees earn a living and that everyone earns a living. So, I think it's important to say that we can do things well, but we also want to earn a living and that, in fact, the distribution may be fairer. And obviously, it's better. It's in the air of time, but it's more than in the air of time, all that. You and your team are busy setting up, but what are the key steps to get there? How did you put it together? And then maybe you'll tell me where you are in the goals that you set for yourself. What do you obviously still have to put in place? But what are the key steps, really, to get to that beautiful goal?

 

00:06:46

Salvatore Iannello: But first, all these steps, regardless of the type of company. And we can see it in the few referent cases currently in the world, the company is right. First, there is a big name. And this great name often comes from the CEO who is going through a particular experience, in this case for me. It's a rather positive experience because I've been away on a sailing boat for several years and these are years during which I've done a lot of thinking. I read a lot and then I talked a lot. I met other people with whom I also exchanged and I lived almost four years in the middle of nature. I saw all its strength on my own, but at the same time all its weakness, and I came back transcended. I am transcended because I came back with an observation. It is that for 300 years we have been living in a system based on the balance of power. Just take the law of supply and demand. I, as a supplier, want to sell as much as possible and for as much as possible. I, the buyer, will buy as much as possible and as cheaply as possible. A balance of power. This balance of power is everywhere. It is in our relationship with nature. It is in the relationship with humans. The system itself. And that is why I am convinced that our liberal system, at least in its current form, has reached the end of its life, has run out of steam, and therefore we must change the system. And so, I came back with the conviction that there was a way to create a company whose relationship with people, with the planet, with money was no longer based solely on the relationship of power but could be based on a relationship of aligned interests. And this does not mean that we cannot be from time to time in a relationship of force. It's not a Care Bear world, obviously, but there is a big difference between living in a system whose essence is the relationship of force and living in a system whose essence is the alignment of interests. And from there, we can build a whole new world. Let's take the case of management, of people management. When you live in a system based on power relations, by definition, you create a system based on mistrust and therefore on controllers and controllers of controllers, etc. But when you live in a system based on alignment of interests, you create a system based on distrust. But when we align our interests, we build a different world, one based on trust and the way we build our organization, the modes of governance we put in place are completely different. In fact, in our company, we no longer speak of a management controller, because in the old paradigm, control meant a slap on the wrist. But the business support, a management controller in our company, is there to bring more, information to those who are in the business so that they can make better decisions. It's a completely different vision. It's a different way of looking at the world. So, what's the big deal? We are, to tell you, I'm going to get to the end, today, we are putting in place a system that is holacratic, that is to say that we manage hola (the circle) cratie (the power), so the power by the circle. We have re-shared the power, so as CEO, I no longer have the power of the traditional CEO, the pyramid. I participate in circles where decisions are made by consent. And if I am one of those who did not agree and the majority goes the other way, we will make the other decision. So, we are really in a different approach. And I think that when we see the tensions of the old paradigm, the climate emergency is just the tip of the iceberg, but the number of burn outs, the number of people who are not well in their skin... We can build a different world and anyway, if we don't do it, it is the future of humanity that we are putting at risk. The world cannot go on like this. And if we are not mistaken, the Earth will continue to live. The dinosaurs, perhaps said that after them, it was the end of the world, but the world continued to turn the earth and it will continue to live. The question is, do we humans want to continue living on this earth? If so, we have to change our relationship with nature and we have to change our relationship with others because the main conclusion of our reflections here internally is that there can be no sustainable approach if there is not an approach of social equity. Both are important. You can't have one without the other. An example deals in a very pragmatic way when a cocoa farmer does not know how he will eat in the evening and he does not know how he will feed his children. How do you want this cocoa farmer to worry about virtuous cocoa techniques? It doesn't matter to him, so we have to work both on the social aspect and on the planet aspect.

 

00:12:36

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Actually, I also find very important in what you say, beyond the substance of course, it's that succeeding in such an experience, such an adventure, is also a sum of little things. When you said, that's the name, that's the title of the management controller, you really go a long way. When I say little things, in fact, I'm wrong because it's perhaps a sum of details that could seem insignificant, but which in fact are not, but which create within your team and collaborators this real feeling of belonging to the project. What I also find important is to say that we could believe... ah yes, you could do it by saying my chocolate is fair trade, which I think your chocolate is. It could be packaging and that, I also know that you have a new approach to packaging. You can explain, but really, do you think that the success of your transformation is that. I feel like that's what it is, it's a sum of a whole series of things, details, the speech that was thought out or not. Is that the success of such a transformation?

 

00:13:56

Salvatore Iannello: First, it is a philosophical basis, a real deep reflection. It's the observation that we have been living for 300 years in a power relationship and that the economic philosophers who are at the basis of our system have themselves highlighted this power relationship, created the power relationship. This observation must be made, and from then on, it's no. And so, we must find solutions that are systemic solutions to this big no. And so, for us, it's the convergence and alignment of interests, it's the integration of all stakeholders around the company. The company must feel responsible to all its stakeholders and obviously, among its stakeholders, there is the shareholder, because without capital, there are no companies. Without it, there are no companies either. Once this systemic, philosophical reasoning is established, all the stakeholders are integrated, and then we are sure to enter into the execution. All this, and it's true that it's a succession of small things, but it's based on something that is not small, it's a solid observation. Because, for example, you can do fairtrade. That's one thing, but for me, to do only fair trade without making the planet, that doesn't make sense either. So, what have we done to objectify the debate? Because you know, in this process, there is a lot of confusion, sometimes intentional and sometimes due to a lack of knowledge. Let's take the case of the first confusion. Everything that is local versus organic. But well, we are not talking about the same thing. Organic, these are virtuous techniques in relation to the planet of the local, it means that the physical distance between the product and me is short. We can very well have local that is not organic and have organic that is not local at all. So already a huge confusion. Another confusion is, for example, in relation to fair trade, all the labels on the market do not all say the same thing, but you have to scratch to understand. There are some who really move the lines. There are some who don't. We audited with a sociologist anthropologist and we decided to work with Fairtrade Max Havelaar because for us, they are the ones who really move the lines. Similarly, other false truths: palm oil. We are without palm oil, but very sincerely, there is a deception behind it. Because the alternatives to palm oil, if we were to use them, if the entire food industry were to use them, we would need three planets because there is no product more effective and efficient, productive than palm oil for food. The problem with palm oil is not that it is used by the oil industry. And if the oil industry stops using palm oil, we could double the population of the planet without using an additional square meter for palm oil. These are all false truths. And so, we have a real concern for communication, for objectification with regard to all these themes. So, there is a base, there are details and above all there is being true, deeply true. In fact, at Galler, we no longer talk about marketing, we do markethics.

 

00:17:40

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Yes, that's nice.

 

00:17:42

Salvatore Iannello: So, if you want that, it addresses the market in the same way in that sense. We want to get in touch with that market, with the consumer. Except that we only say things that are profoundly true and we only do what we say. And if we are wrong, we say we are wrong. It's a whole other process. It's the process of authenticity. And today, I think that consumers, especially the youngest and even the less young, are looking for meaning in their lives. They are looking for meaning in their professional life. They are looking for meaning in their private life, in the way they buy and in the way they consume. And so, this authenticity will become a must. Greenwashing, social washing is something that, for me, in the decades, will disappear.

 

00:18:29

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Indeed, how do you, you can maybe give some examples, how do you make the consumer aware of this and see this authenticity. They follow you in this hostility, have you already had the opportunity to get feedback from some of your consumers that they have understood this authenticity, the fact that you are authentic and true, or is it still too early in the process? Maybe it's still too early.

 

00:19:02

Salvatore Iannello: It's a daily job and it will take a lot of time. Our will is to transform our consumers into our consom'actors, so by definition, we have to communicate with them. What we realized, and fortunately, because it is our social heritage, is that before we start talking about sustainable and ethical issues, we must first have a quality product. That's the basis of it all, a bit like Maslow's pyramid. You have to have a quality product, a product that gives pleasure. When this base is verified, then we can start to build and thus we have created what we call the virtuous circle to transform the consumer into an actor. The first thing is the quality of the product. Not only do we use and build on our heritage, but we also strengthen it. And besides, in terms of the food industry, when we talk about tastes and textures, there are two types of alliances. Either we are in superposition alliances. For example, sugar-sugar, acid-acid, or we are in alliances of complementarity or contrast, and there, we are rather in the acidulous sugar, crunchy, soft. And for us at Galler, our heritage is really about contrast. In fact, this contrast is part of our values, even in our way of life. It's really deeply rooted in the Galler culture. So, the taste is very much focused on our contrast alliances. Secondly, we have defined what we call the concept of the consumer's right to health, even though we are a quality product and a pleasure product. We want to integrate a nutritional approach and we have hired a nutritionist, which I will call a new version, who thinks in terms of nutrients, who thinks differently, the nutritional balance. And we have decided on one axis, which is less sugar, more fiber. For example, our new products, the rawetes, we could, from a legal point of view, use the claim, rich or source of fiber. We haven't done it on the packaging, but whether we do it or not, our products are designed according to this charter less sugar, more fiber. And by the way, on this subject, I would like to awaken all the people who are going to listen to this podcast to this: often, we hear people who say that they have put less sugar. They are either liars or they don't know what they are talking about because in the food industry, nothing is lost, nothing is created. If you put less sugar, you put more of something. If this more of something is less healthy than sugar, it was perhaps better to leave sugar. What is important is that when we talk about less sugar, what do we put instead? In our case, it will be more fiber and that's a real challenge. It's a real challenge because for those who are listening and who are in the food business, they know that sugar is a taste enhancer. When you touch the sweetness, you touch the balance of the product. So, first element: a quality product that gives pleasure based on alliances and contrasts. Second element: the right to health. The third element is to create the economic conditions so that this consumer can become a consumer. And for this, I will try to be concise and clear. But why hasn't fair trade or ethics worked until now? Because the 0.8 euros per kilo that we bought in addition to the cocoa farmer, that is 0.8 euros per kilo of the bean, was transformed into 8 euros per kilo at the consumer. Everyone margined, even the intermediaries. But if we pass on the 0.8 euros per kilo to 0.8 euros per kilo, it means that the increases are negligible. This means that the average consumer can, in any case, in economic terms, become a consumer. And so, we have created the economic conditions. This is what we have called the concept of the euro for the euro. And finally, it is to give meaning to taste. It's all the commitments that we are involved in. And here, I would simply say that beyond pleasing ourselves when we bite into a Galler chocolate in 2021, we know that we are cutting a chocolate for a better world. So that's the circle we want to implement. Element by element, to enable that consumer to become a consumer. And then, of course, behind all of that is all the communication tools and it's a real challenge. It's a huge challenge because if we go too far, we're considered as those who do marketing. If we don't go far enough, we won't communicate enough and so we have to strike a subtle balance in terms of communication, being very real, telling it like it is. That's why authenticity is really key to stay credible and not be seen as greenwashing or social washing.

 

00:24:36

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Well, I confirm that when you said that the most important thing was taste. I confirm that it's very good. I confirm that in terms of taste, I am very happy to know that the right to health is there. It reassures me on the consumption that I make of it. It's a little joke, but I think it's true that it's important, knowing that chocolate is something that is anchored in the emotions of many people. And not only in Belgium.

 

00:25:10

Salvatore Iannello: Totally.

 

00:25:12

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: It's almost a refuge value, chocolate. Especially when you're not feeling well or when you're not doing well, you eat a piece of chocolate.

 

00:25:22

Salvatore Iannello: But that's why what you just said is part of our challenges. Because at the same time, we have an emotional product, and we shouldn't become guilty. That is to say, we must not take away our emotions during the tasting experience. And so, all the subtlety of communication is to convey real messages while allowing this emotion to be expressed. It's a real challenge.

 

00:25:48

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Yes, I can imagine that, and I can imagine what you were saying about the difficult balance between too much communication, too much marketing and not enough. I think that it must be something that must be complicated. That's what you would describe as the most difficult thing in all this transformation, in all this awareness, maybe, or exploring things clearly.

 

00:26:21

Salvatore Iannello: Our challenge is to transform the consumer into a consumer actor. And we will succeed or fail depending on our ability to transform.

 

00:26:31

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: It's very simple, the ticket is very clear, and you think there is still a lot to do. What do you think are the big mindsets?

 

00:26:43

Salvatore Iannello: There is still everything to do. In fact, to explain a little bit all the steps. When we transformed the company, the project and changed the brand identity six months ago, not too long ago. So, the first few months, our goal was to communicate a new identity, same taste. It was important not to have a break with the base, with our historical fans and elsewhere. It was also a respect towards them. And today, we tested and we realized that not only this heritage of taste, these grounds were still present, but even in terms of perception, increased. So, we have these six months, we have consolidated the history and now we will start to communicate. So, all the news, the new concepts that are in our project all the commitments and all the positions, the sustainable yet equitable positions that we have taken. It is a process. It's going to take time, we know that, but hey, that's the challenge.

 

00:27:56

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: It takes challenges. And what I had never seen, I think elsewhere, is that you had your own constitution at Galler.

 

00:28:07

Salvatore Iannello: Yes.

 

00:28:07

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: I thought it was quite nice and extraordinary, it was something said that you wanted from the beginning "to have your own constitution". It was almost a political act?

 

00:28:22

Salvatore Iannello: I think that the company is right to be, is an eminently political enterprise. From the moment we want to change the world, or in any case humbly contribute to change the world, from the moment we have a vision on a new balance of functioning of society, from the moment we think that the future of humanity depends on our ability to create a sustainable world, by definition, these policies, then in fact, we are, we have self-proclaimed independent chocolate companies. Why? Because we are intellectually independent, we dared to defy the dogmatic raison d'être of the old system, which is the maximization of short-term profit and the sacrosanct theory of growth. We know, we have given ourselves our own raison d'être, the one I mentioned at the beginning. So, we are intellectually independent. We are also independent because we are a company with a human dimension, we do not belong to the big groups. That's it, that's the notion of independence, but also the notion of dependence and the notion of group. The notion of tribe, that's why we have a constitution that reflects our values. It's a country, an enchanted country, a chocolate country. The Galler chocolate factory. And that's it. And then we invite everyone to come home. There's no Covid at our home. So, in Galler chocolate country, there is no Covid, the borders are open and travel is allowed. Come and travel with us.

 

00:30:15

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Great, with pleasure. I'm going back in the boat. I am part of the journey. And since the six months, yes, it's a challenge. It's something that will take time. But already, you have had what I call good surprises, things that have surprised you positively. Or did you say to yourself, "Oh, I didn't know that. I had never thought of that.” Or did it happen?

 

00:30:44

Salvatore Iannello: Yes, of course, both beautiful surprises and difficult moments. Because when you are in such a drastic change, you know you are shaking things up. You bring in a whole series of people who are used to the brand, used to the identity. In a moment of insecurity and very sincerely, the first few weeks, we were atomized on social networks. It was really difficult, but we knew it and it was planned. Every time there is a big change in a brand, it happens. What we had to check was that afterwards, it reverses, and it did. Today, we have had no criticism, only positive elements, people who express themselves in relation to the color, in relation to the joy, in relation to our approach. And so, it was really day and night, or rather night and day, hell and heaven in very few months. And even if we were ready, we expected it. It's still hard, it's scary. You wonder if you've gone too far in the change. And then, when it reverses, we rest where we are. We're happy here, that's what we've really experienced as we've tested and we realize that we've rejuvenated the brand enormously. Young people under 30 are coming in, whereas they never used to come in to buy Galler chocolate. So, I think we are on the right track and the future will tell us. I think we need at least 12 months, 13 months before we can say whether we have made all the right choices. But we are on the right path with some good surprises. From week to week, we get a lot of positive comments. We are invited everywhere. In fact, the project is attracting a lot of attention and the media. But it even attracts the intellectual world, the universities. We will explain how we built our new business model, our new governance, etc. So, we feel that there is a positive influence. Now, we also have the short-term pressure of Covid. And that diminishes our ability to read what's going on because Covid puts pressure that has nothing to do with the new identity or the old one. Whatever happens, Covid puts pressure on chocolate, not on all segments. There are segments that have done well and other segments that have suffered tremendously from chocolate.

 

00:33:33

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Yes, indeed, I imagine that yes, this Covid period did not make things easier, but independently, as you said at the beginning you had some difficult moments at the beginning on social media. But I think any change is always scary and somewhere along the line that's the boldness you had. Maybe after that it was rewarded and it will be in the future, depending on what you do. But yeah, any change...

 

00:34:06

Salvatore Iannello: Anyway, that would be just the results today. We have been extremely resilient in relation to the Covid. And we are sure that the change of identity, the new project, etc. has contributed to this resilience. When I compare the evolution of our turnover to our colleagues, we have resisted.

 

00:34:33

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: I imagine that a project like that, a speech like that, well, that touches the conservatives. And good if they are listening, I think that a rejuvenation of the brand, that's quite an achievement. Because I think that today's demographics mean that people are getting older and older. But despite that, having a younger population in its clientele is still a guarantee of the future. And when you were talking about governance, that's what I don't know. If you have a few more minutes to talk to us about this. What struck me a few weeks ago when I came to see you, to Galler, to your offices, was that before the meeting you said "I would like to explain to you the new Galler, the project". I thought that was quite fabulous. In fact, to take a few minutes like that and say OK, we're going to talk about what we need to talk about, but first, I'd like to explain a little bit where you're going and are you sure you're in agreement because this Sunday... ha ha ha ha ha ha! And it's related to this governance, is there any other aspects? Maybe you have set up, you explained it a little bit, the decision circles. That's what you call governance. Is there anything else?

 

00:36:07

Salvatore Iannello: No, no. So, we've gone from a pyramidal system to a holacratic system, anyway, inspired by holacracy here, which means that we've redistributed power within the company, everyone participates in the decision-making process, each at their own level. We have circles that are more operational, for example the production workshop. We have circles that are more strategic, but within the circles, everyone participates in the decision-making process via what we call the consent process. What is consent versus consensus? Consensus is everyone agreeing. Consent is democracy, it's the majority but debated. So, if there are six who are for and four who are against, we ask the four who are against if they can sleep well at night with the decision. If it's yes, it's OK. If it's no, we ask them what reasonable arguments they have against it. We listen, we vote again and then the decision is made and we move forward because otherwise we lose all agility. And that's what's great, is that in fact, between the long-term circles, between the long-term and strategic themes, the medium-term and tactical themes and the short-term operational themes, there is no hierarchical link or link of importance. There is a link of coherence because that is what is important, it is not the hierarchical link, it is the link of coherence between strategic thinking, tactical implementation and day to day execution. And if this coherence is there, then we have companies that are logical, that are effective, that are efficient, that move in the same direction. And so, that's what we've really changed. It's a hierarchical structure that was based, that was vertical and that was based on power or hierarchy, to a structure that is based on a link of coherence between time horizons.

 

00:38:21

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Yes, and apparently it affects all departments. You were talking about production.

 

00:38:27

Salvatore Iannello: Yes yes, everywhere. So, you could imagine that it's a gas factory, but I did the math, if the circles are run according to the rules that we all established together, 6% of the payroll is dedicated to the operation of the circles. This means that the decision-making process is 6%. That is, 94% of it. Everyone participates in the decision-making process.

 

00:38:59

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Yes, it's effective.

 

00:39:02

Salvatore Iannello: All the entrepreneurs who listen to me know that there are no great strategies without great execution. It's the execution in fine that makes, it's the detail that makes the difference. And so, for me, it's good to think, it's good to decide, but it's even better to do.

 

00:39:25

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Yes, that's the difference between those who succeed and those who don't, it's when you do it. Thank you very much. Maybe one last question because indeed, I think that there are many people who listen to us and who are certainly admiring the project, but also the audacity and the stage of having initiated it and following it. What would you advise them? What would be your advice to the people listening to us today? Who might want to start a sustainable and profitable business, but don't dare for different reasons? What do you want to tell them?

 

00:40:11

Salvatore Iannello: I would tell them that making money is normal. Because a company that doesn't make money, it dies. But making money without caring about the planet, without caring about people, is a crime today. And so, I think that the future of humanity is at stake. That is my deepest conviction. And so, there you have it. It's up to each person to choose whether they prefer to live in the short term or whether they want to build a world for their children's children and for the other children who will come after. As far as I am concerned, the choice is made. I am in favor of building a different world, a world that ensures the sustainability of humanity. And so, at the Galler chocolate factory, we try to contribute humbly because, each one has his own level, but there are others when I think of Emmanuel Faber, he also tried to do it at Danone. The Galler chocolate factory is not the only one in this movement. There are other companies that are thinking in the same way and I believe that the more we know how to do it, the more we will be able to demonstrate that it works economically and the more we will attract people who want to participate in this change. We must have courage.

 

00:41:42

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: It takes courage it's true, and above all, it's a role model in fact, a role of example. As you said, it can snowball and there are others who want to do it too. So, I think the more people, the more companies that start doing it, the more others will follow, because they'll see that consumers are making their choice, knowing that they have it, they've already done it.

 

00:42:04

Salvatore Iannello: In fact, for me, if we do sustainable and even push a little further, we change the governance model. That, we can't do if we don't share the financial added value at the same time. Because otherwise, it's just changing a mode of governance to be more effective and efficient. I think we have to play it right. So, here at Galler, we have decided that from a certain level of profitability, there are bonuses that are distributed, which allows, in a consistent way with the agreement of the shareholder, which obviously allows everyone to participate in the decision-making process, but also to have access to the added value of the company.

 

00:42:55

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Exactly. The loop is closed and you are right to add this point because I think it is indeed key. As you said at the beginning, all the actors, from the cocoa farmers to the people in your company, are involved. So, you did the right thing in adding that point. Well, look, I think we've... we could talk about it for hours to go into detail. I invite the people who are listening to us to go and see the Galler website because I think that there is a lot of information and then continue to follow you. And I will follow you in any case, that's clear. Thank you very much Salvatore.

 

00:43:38

Salvatore Iannello: Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity you gave us.

 

00:43:42

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: My pleasure.

 

00:43:46

Gaëlle Helsmoortel: Thank you all for watching this new episode of Dgenious, Let's Talk Retail. The full transcript of this interview is now available on our website dgenious.com in French, but also in English. And I'm also putting the direct link to the transcript in the bio of this episode. I'm looking forward to seeing you in two weeks for a new topic and a new guest from Dgenious, Let's Talk Retail. And until then, be sure to grow your business. Ciao!